Chechen Bomb Attack! Urgent!

[Ogreasy]

(Personally, I find Wisemans and OCB's arguments enlightening as well as entertaining)
Its philosophy Wiseman, he keeps asking the questions that we are pretty sure we know the answers to and in the process of shouting at him we keep thinking. Thats what it is, not to find answers but to keep thinking.

I don't think OCB is pro terrorist or pro Chechen.
Hes got his views on terrorism and I respect that.
He never was pro terrorist, just has a different idea on dealing with it.
I think the way to deal with terrorists is a little of both your guys' ideas.
You can't give in to terrorists, but if it will save enough lives you have to give them what they want sometimes.

Arguing over things like this is good.
Its not like OCB is arguing that nazism is a good thing or anything.
Hes just arguing that a people who do sort of belong there should be able to live there how they want to. I don't like the radical Chechens that do these terrorist attacks, not at all.
And I know that most Chechens do not support their actions.

I find it is always better to deal with things like this, even if it involves arguing over them. Censorship is not the answer. I wrote a report on this in school a few days ago, the class was moved. Well..mostly..

[mrwiseman]

IRT OCB: Do you have some kind of mental illness?

I don't know if I do, but I'm surely going to develop one if I continue to read posts like these.


????


IRT CBA: he keeps asking the questions that we are pretty sure we know the answers to and in the process of shouting at him we keep thinking.

What an elaborate euphemism for trolling.


You can't give in to terrorists, but if it will save enough lives you have to give them what they want sometimes.

Cool, then we should have given the world to Hitler to avoid the WW2; it'd have saved millions of deaths!


Arguing over things like this is good.

No. Discussing things like this is good. Arguing gets lame.


Hes just arguing that a people who do sort of belong there should be able to live there how they want to.

So, well, I sort of belong to my home, so I want my home to be declared an independent state! Does this make any sense?


Censorship is not the answer.

That's why I haven't modded him yet, even though I could make use of some rules and had the votes of all the Granaboarders (except OCB) on my side just a few weeks ago regarding this.

However, I'm commited to make this board a nice and enjoyable place for all, and to protect its users from actions such as flaming or spam. And supporting drugs or saying "let's do what the terrorists want" is not my idea of "nice and enjoyable". That's why the Granaboard Rules and Regulations exist.

[Ogreasy]

Yeah, good points...

[One Classy Bloke]

Wiseman, you're completely useless. You're living in a fantasy world, where people are born to be a terrorist, and the only way to stop them is to kill them when they've become terrorists.

You typical upper class shit, you don't care about anyone below you. And if they start to trouble you, you tell some goons to kill them.

My advice to you: Get out of your house (use sunblock), and see the real world. See the problems people have to face day in, day out. And i'm not talking about someguy who lost a tenner on the train. Go to these poor countries. Maybe you'll see it's not the people's fault they are poor. A shit government and being born into a poor socity. You were born into riches compared to these people. At least try to see they are not born terrorists. Why do you think most terrorists are from the middle east? Because these are poor nations with crap governments.

Of course, these things don't matter to you, just get your government to kill them. Let them stay poor. Maybe you want the miltary to hold onto it's job or something. Must be good for the economy.

Of course, when the next building to blow up is yours, i hope you remember us. But by your 'facts', you won't. So who cares what any of us say. It won't matter then, as you won't remember.

Get off your high horse.

[mrwiseman]

LOL.

You wrote that expecting I would read it, get pissed, but mod it because it breaks the GR&R, and things would end like that, right? You know what? I won't mod it, since it's directed towards me and I'm not telling the mod.

Let's give everybody an opportunity to see how you treat me and to form their own opinions, because I always end up looking like the evil mod who censors messages.

It would be nice if you could quote where did I say all you said I did.

And I did not only visit, but live in a poor country (Argentina) for a few years, and I saw with my own eyes why is it like that. And those weren't the eyes of an upperclassman, those were the eyes of a 9 year old kid who barely understood what was all that, but years later, he could remember, felt angered and tried to think some more, but then he came to understand why was it so fubared. Explaining my thoughts to you would be a waste of time though, you won't ever listen to me.

What you fail to see is that action carries consequences, and everything happens for a reason, and maybe those poor people are doing or aren't doing something because of which they are poor. Because well, crappy governments don't really screw a country up all alone (think Bush and the USA), and no government can stay in power without any support from the prople. You fail to realize 50000 years ago no human had more stones and leaves than any other, no human was smarter than any other, and there weren't any countries nor development anywhere. And yet, now some countries have stuff some others don't. I wonder why is it. And this is not sarcasm, I really wonder why didn't Africa develop like Europe despite having better conditions and equal quality people, for example. This is something I haven't understood yet, and there must be a complex reason, as I refuse to think they are inferior per se. But never mind me, I'm upper class shit.

<font color="#101010" size="1">[ May 10, 2004 08:44 PM: Message edited by: -Wiseman- ]</font>

[Cataferal]

I can definately empathise with both views, and i think the primary difference between the two perspectives on terrorism is experience.

On the one hand, Wiseman is perceives terrorism as a threat that can strike any time (having viewed it taking effect locally, within his town/city), and therefore believes we should abolish it as soon as possible before even more people get hurt.
However, OCB doesnt yet seem to appreciate the imminancy of terrorism, since recently, the UK hasnt fallen victim to any major terrorist attacks (although they have prevented a few attempts). We have yet to truly fear becoming victims of terrorism, since we take what peace we have for granted.

This issue is one of time. If we had all the time in the world, knowing that terrorists wouldnt strike, then OCB's more peaceful method of terrorist abolishment would be preferable. We could sort things out slowly and thoughtfully, and everyone would benefit, and above all, live.
However, we simply dont have that time. As we've seen in Spain, the US, Russia, amd many other locations, the terrorists arent going to wait for us to negotiate. They're insistant on replying with nothing but violence and brutality, ignorantly following orders, or even acting on their own accord, in favour of killing as many innocents as possible.

OCB raised a good point with the nurture vs nature theory (although he raised it in a very provocative manner), since it outlines the key assumptions of his anti-terrorist theory.
Certainly, if we were to reason with them, and disencourage all their nurtured violent tendancies, we would do away with terrorism once and for all, and without any bloodshed. But how many terrorists do you think we have to systematically desenisitise in such a way? If we were to convince even a terorist leader that what they're doing is wrong, and re-allocate their morals, its not like their following will conform.

These people were raised badly, hurt emotionally, and handed a gun to avenge themselves. They'll still walk the path of terrorism because thats all they've ever known, and thats all they want, and not having a leader wont change that.

Overall, with all things considered, im more in agreement with Wiseman's views on terrorism, and the nature of its destruction. While i dont fully comprehend terrorism as something that can hit me here in Britain, i feel i would rather never know it through personal experience in the first place. Wiseman's course of action reduces the chances of it happening to me, my family, and my friends - and thats what matters. I can put it down to the ideology of the "survivial of the fittest". We're fitter than these terrorists in terms of mentality, because while we also aim to destroy them by equally violent and brutal methods, we also aim to sustain peace afterwards, which cant be said for them.

Just imagine a world ruled by the terrorists, after letting them walk all over us. I dont want that, not at all.

<font color="#101010" size="1">[ May 10, 2004 08:53 PM: Message edited by: Cataferal ]</font>

[Ogreasy]

IRT CATAFERAL-*applause*
That was good.
I don't think they'll buy it though.

[mrwiseman]

IRT Cataferal: I agree with you 99%. And thanks for turning this thread into a worthy discussion. It's getting late here and I have a minor exam tomorrow (well, today, in about 6 hours from now), but I'll check this back tomorrow.

[Ogreasy]

Yeah. it was a good thread.

[Xellos]

Figures.